Curse

Div · Aug 11, 2008, 10:47 AM // 10:47

Seriously, HB and RC?

Even with some teams running WoH and the newly buffed AoF, it still leaves a lot of stuff out.

Healing burst: 3r. 30 area heal @ 14heal.

LoD: 7r.

Healing light: 3r. 3/4 cast.

More variety please

Shayne Hawke · Aug 11, 2008, 12:18 PM // 12:18

But HB helps infusers look pro.

I D E L E T E D I · Aug 11, 2008, 12:49 PM // 12:49

I saw you playing with rawr last night, you ran HB in all the matches i obsed. Why did you not run Healing Burst, oh yeah it sucks balls.
Pounds was initially running AoF but that quickly changed to RC.

While AoF has real potential in GvG it just wont cut it in HA with a 2 monk backline. But you should know this =/

Sun Fired Blank · Aug 11, 2008, 06:23 PM // 18:23

The RC bar is very inflexible for a couple of reasons. One reason is that if you take any other elite, you have to drop a useful prot from the RC, and the other monk does not have space for those options if you don't run HB. The problem is that you have to run WoH, and you have to sacrifice uber-Infuse, uber-Dwayna's, and uber-HPs. WoH is frankly more robust and gives you that space for prot, but HB is far greater output and you can't readily sacrifice that I don't believe. The other problem is that RC is ridiculously useful in HA. If you don't have it, you must run Dismiss and / or off-monk removal, forcing bar expansion on several characters and losing the ridiculous amount of damage that RC undoes on a regular basis.

In my opinion, Healing Burst can't be viable because you must have a focused red bars up skill, the party healing is not enough and it makes you die versus Soul Bind. An improvement for the party healing / recharge doesn't make it playable for me. A recharge / activation improvement on Healing Light doesn't make it playable for me, I need something that pushes red bars up quickly and significantly, not an elite roughly on par with Soothing Memories. Even if Healing Light gave me a net energy gain under Channeling, I don't believe that's enough.

Finally I'm not sure about Light of Deliverance. The present form is very sad and only a touch stronger than Heaven's Delight / Divine Healing. I think that for LoD to re-enter HA, it has to seriously outweigh the benefits of taking Protective Was Kaolai / Heaven's Delight on a midline. At the same time though, it has to be weak enough that it doesn't inoculate your team from pressure and cause games to be about shutting down LoD, and even if you improved LoD, I'm not entirely sure that I'd run it on my second monk, I'd probably just spec healing prayers on a midliner and take Weapon of Warding anyways.

Snow Bunny · Aug 11, 2008, 06:45 PM // 18:45

HB:

Throw heals around to clean up people's idiocy from running in rainbow-spike fire AoE. Cast channeling.

Wait for spike. BIG HEAL. Repeat.

RC:

Throw around RoF to make it look like you know what you're doing. Spam RC on charge to clean up the conditions from various 'balanced' spike. Cast channeling.

Wait for spike. SB and mash RC. Repeat

With AoF and Healing Burst, you'd have to play intelligently.

Teh Jace · Aug 11, 2008, 08:25 PM // 20:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

With AoF and Healing Burst, you'd have to play intelligently.

Can u please explain me how exactly? Cuz the only thing I can see is shitty version of protection spirit (play as SB) and crappy healing elite with AoE effect (oh wait a sec... HA maps are soooo huge u rly need to watch every teammate to be in area of ultra +20HP heal effect... maybe u will even counter initial pulse of SH!)

Grugio · Aug 11, 2008, 09:26 PM // 21:26

I don't think its a lack of other good healing elites or protection elites, I think it's a matter of people not knowing how to utilize the skills to their maximum potential.

Edwards · Aug 11, 2008, 09:35 PM // 21:35

As was mentioned before, Healing Burst's 20-30 health healed is not worth exploding against Soul Bind for.

Of course, if you were smart, you wouldn't use Healing Burst against teams with Soul Bind, but then you're throwing away your elite skill against the heroway meta and any hexways you might run into. Top 10 GvG monks could probably still handle this, but most of the crappy monks in HA fold against those builds anyways.

Div · Aug 11, 2008, 09:39 PM // 21:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by I D E L E T E D I

I saw you playing with rawr last night, you ran HB in all the matches i obsed. Why did you not run Healing Burst, oh yeah it sucks balls.
Pounds was initially running AoF but that quickly changed to RC.

While AoF has real potential in GvG it just wont cut it in HA with a 2 monk backline. But you should know this =/

I actually ran LoD half the time, but it wasn't on obs as rawr because that was after pounds left and liekkio came. Liekkio ran AoF afaik, and our "best" run was when we had an LoD AoF backline.

And yes, that's why I think some skills need to be buffed so it isn't as boring. HB is about the most retarded monk bar possible out there.

Killed u man · Aug 11, 2008, 10:07 PM // 22:07

Ye, and yet so many Monks fail...

I won't lie, Monk elites are very imbalanced between eachother. (Face it, LoD compared to HB/HP, it isn't a choice)

But the fact that people in HA are bad, as said before, forces people to run gimmick Monk bars, just to keep up. When U face shit such as Heroway, D/E (WS spam), Searing Flames PvE-farmers, etc... you need to have an al rounder.

RC and HB do all that, and WoH to a lesser extend. (WoH majorly lacks party heals, thus seeing R30+ Guilds collapse against heroway in 1:30 due to lack of spammable party heal. The WoH, even with infinite energy -Pets, Minnions, Spirits anyone?- simply can't outheal the usually 8 man suffering, disease + other crap hexes. -Olias is PRO at hexing/taint-)

I first tought it was a typo: 20 party heal to the people in the area? Thats pretty close, no wait, that IS a joke. It's clear Izzy wants to buff "active" party heal with this skill. (Where Monks have to pay attention to position, instead of blind spamming -HB much-) BUT when you do so, make sure it's worthwhile bringing.

Looks at all the overpowered hexes that got buffed...

WHY can't he buff Monk elites on par with these hexes.

[Visions of Regret]
[Pain of Disenchantment]
[Soul Bind]

and then look at

[Healing Burst]

Yes, I giggled...

I D E L E T E D I · Aug 12, 2008, 02:11 AM // 02:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

I actually ran LoD half the time, but it wasn't on obs as rawr because that was after pounds left and liekkio came. Liekkio ran AoF afaik, and our "best" run was when we had an LoD AoF backline.

And yes, that's why I think some skills need to be buffed so it isn't as boring. HB is about the most retarded monk bar possible out there.

I didnt watch all the matches, so i dont know what you ran all night.

But yeah i agree monk elites need to be buffed slightly to make them a bit more viable. And unless they rework a whole skill LoD and Healing Burst are the only onces that can give you the big Party red bar up

|Readem| · Aug 12, 2008, 04:22 AM // 04:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

I first tought it was a typo: 20 party heal to the people in the area? Thats pretty close, no wait, that IS a joke.

Buffing hexes was the joke. You know, they were just so "underpowered" before the update.

-Lotus- · Aug 12, 2008, 06:33 AM // 06:33

people are running HB now?... I havent played HA in so long... Dosnt sound like theres any reason to start again if people are running trash like this.

Warriorsrmint · Aug 12, 2008, 08:43 AM // 08:43

The main reason people run them is because they are effective but i dunno about how other elites would go, never been to good with my monk.

Div · Aug 12, 2008, 08:49 AM // 08:49

The biggest problem with LoD is its inability to keep red bars up in such a rapid environment. Sure, it can outlast a HB energy-wise, but who cares if your team is dead in 2 minutes? Being able to go all-out and pumping rapid, big heals is what you want in HA (pretty much wipe them before you run out of energy mentality), and LoD doesn't provide that because of shitty healing and shitty recharge. Lower recharge and it could be interesting, even in GvG play again.

Healing burst needs a bigger AoE heal (or maybe even range) to let it see play over WoH.

the_deSKtructor · Aug 12, 2008, 09:10 AM // 09:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Ye, and yet so many Monks fail...

I won't lie, Monk elites are very imbalanced between eachother. (Face it, LoD compared to HB/HP, it isn't a choice)

But the fact that people in HA are bad, as said before, forces people to run gimmick Monk bars, just to keep up. When U face shit such as Heroway, D/E (WS spam), Searing Flames PvE-farmers, etc... you need to have an al rounder.

RC and HB do all that, and WoH to a lesser extend. (WoH majorly lacks party heals, thus seeing R30+ Guilds collapse against heroway in 1:30 due to lack of spammable party heal. The WoH, even with infinite energy -Pets, Minnions, Spirits anyone?- simply can't outheal the usually 8 man suffering, disease + other crap hexes. -Olias is PRO at hexing/taint-)

I first tought it was a typo: 20 party heal to the people in the area? Thats pretty close, no wait, that IS a joke. It's clear Izzy wants to buff "active" party heal with this skill. (Where Monks have to pay attention to position, instead of blind spamming -HB much-) BUT when you do so, make sure it's worthwhile bringing.

Looks at all the overpowered hexes that got buffed...

WHY can't he buff Monk elites on par with these hexes.

[Visions of Regret]
[Pain of Disenchantment]
[Soul Bind]

and then look at

[Healing Burst]

Yes, I giggled...

I don't think that the buff everything mentality is ok. If hexes are overpowered than those deserve a nerf, buffing monk skills will break the game even more.

Killed u man · Aug 12, 2008, 04:41 PM // 16:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_deSKtructor

I don't think that the buff everything mentality is ok. If hexes are overpowered than those deserve a nerf, buffing monk skills will break the game even more.

Power Creep.

Yes, Idd rather see a hex nerf, but seeing how Anet buffed it less then a week ago, its unlikely they will undo half of the buffs... (Face it, 20 elites are being used in gimmick builds)

I D E L E T E D I · Aug 12, 2008, 10:23 PM // 22:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

The biggest problem with LoD is its inability to keep red bars up in such a rapid environment. Sure, it can outlast a HB energy-wise, but who cares if your team is dead in 2 minutes? Being able to go all-out and pumping rapid, big heals is what you want in HA (pretty much wipe them before you run out of energy mentality), and LoD doesn't provide that because of shitty healing and shitty recharge. Lower recharge and it could be interesting, even in GvG play again.

Healing burst needs a bigger AoE heal (or maybe even range) to let it see play over WoH.

Since you are one of the "few selected people" on Izzys forum I have proposition you could make. With the split between PvE and PvP, would it not be a good idea to Split the PvP balance into 3 different PvP Sections, for Ta, HA and GvG. It shoule be able to do the Split since they already have split PvE from PvP. With all these arenas being so different they should get different balance. It might revive some life into these mostly dead or gimmick arenas.